Bug: FOW replay issue [updated]

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Bug: FOW replay issue [updated]

Postby rabid iguana » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:11 am

In skirmish mode, your units will not fire back on attacking units concealed in the fog of war (even if they are in range), but the AI's units will fire back on your attacking units concealed in the fog of war.

In pass-and-play mode, both P1's units and P2's units will fire back on attacking units concealed in the fog of war.

If you wish to confirm this, an easy way to do it is with fighters on Epic MP Airwar #2.

I haven't tested this, but I suspect that multiplayer mode behaves the same as skirmish mode, giving P1 an advantage. (This bug report arose from the thread started by Jumbo titled "Scared of flying.")

** UPDATE **

According to Paul, the AI's vision is not impaired by the fog of war, so this behavior in skirmish mode is normal. The AI can always see all of your units (see the third post in this thread).

After some experiments conducted by Bolt986 and myself, we are not seeing the skirmish mode behavior in multiplayer mode. P2 is not disadvantaged. However, the firing back behavior is broken in multiplayer mode. From the perspective of the attacking unit, the enemy unit it is attacking always fires back (assuming that the attacking unit is in the range of the enemy unit). However, from the perspective of the enemy unit (the unit being attacked), it cannot fire back if the attacking unit is concealed in the fog of war. It seems like the rules during a turn are different than the rules when a turn is replayed. See the seventh post in this thread for more details.

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Re: Bug: FOW for P1 v. P2

Postby bolt986 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:18 am

I'd bet money that this is because the AI player has full view of the entire map and their site ranges are not calculated.
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Re: Bug: FOW for P1 v. P2

Postby Rubicon » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:34 am

This is deliberate, not a bug. You are invading them, there's nothing to state that the AI won't have good intelligence assets deployed over their home turf, like the spysat.
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Re: Bug: FOW for P1 v. P2

Postby JulyDerek1 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:26 am

Rubicon wrote:This is deliberate, not a bug. You are invading them, there's nothing to state that the AI won't have good intelligence assets deployed over their home turf, like the spysat.


:D
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Re: Bug: FOW for P1 v. P2

Postby rabid iguana » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:01 pm

Rubicon wrote:This is deliberate, not a bug. You are invading them, there's nothing to state that the AI won't have good intelligence assets deployed over their home turf, like the spysat.


But is this happening in multiplayer mode as well? Someone should test it because I think it is. The matches are tough enough on P2 without giving P1 home field advantage as well! :-o

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Re: Bug: FOW for P1 v. P2

Postby bolt986 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:05 pm

rabid iguana wrote:
Rubicon wrote:This is deliberate, not a bug. You are invading them, there's nothing to state that the AI won't have good intelligence assets deployed over their home turf, like the spysat.


But is this happening in multiplayer mode as well? Someone should test it because I think it is. The matches are tough enough on P2 without giving P1 home field advantage as well! :-o


When testing this for multiplayer be sure to distinguish the difference between the replay and the actual turn behavior.
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Re: Bug: FOW replay issue [updated]

Postby rabid iguana » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:38 am

Bolt986 and I did some experiments this evening on Epic MP Airwar #2 in multiplayer mode. We have uncovered a bug in how replays handle the fog of war. For the bug we found, P1 and P2 are equally affected.

Scenario #1: P2 (Bolt986) uses a fighter to attack P1's (rabid iguana) fighter. P2 has a scout deployed so that P2 can see P1's fighter and P2's fighter can attack P1's fighter from a distance of 5 tiles. However, P1 does not have a scout deployed, so P1's fighter cannot see P2's fighter when it attacks. Fighters have an attack range of 5 tiles but a vision range of only 3 tiles.

When P2's fighter attacks, P2 sees P1's fighter fire back. P1's fighter suffers a small amount of damage.

When P1 views P2's turn via replay, P1's fighter does not fire back and P2's fighter is at full strength. P1 does nothing.

After P1 does nothing, P2's fighter is completely undamaged at the start of P2's next turn.

This means that the attacker sees the attackee firing back, but the attackee does not see itself firing back. And the net result is as if the firing back never occurred.

Scenario #2: P1 (rabid iguana) uses a fighter concealed in the fog of war to attack P2's (Bolt986) fighter. Same thing happens. P1 sees P2's fighter fire back. P2 does not see its fighter fire back. At the beginning of P1's next turn, it is as if the firing back never occurred.

Scenario #3: P2 uses a heavily damaged fighter concealed in the fog of war to attack P1's full-strength fighter. P1 sees it's fighter attack, get fired back upon, and get destroyed. P1 does not see its fighter firing back and destroying P2's fighter. From P1's perspective, P2's fighter is still there in its original heavily-damaged shape. At the beginning of P2's next turn, its destroyed fighter has been resurrected.

It seems as though, when you are playing, units fire back when attacked even when the attacking unit is concealed in the fog of war. However, when the move gets replayed, units don't fire back when attacked when the attacking unit is concealed in the fog of war.

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Re: Bug: FOW replay issue [updated]

Postby Jumbo » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:22 am

Time to salute your work with this ^:)^ , your confirmation means I will be keeping my feet anchored to the ground for the time being.
Have you been able to ascertain any effects of elevation in your exercises? For example can a P1 chopper hovering above the plateau see and hit the lower hangar from a distance of 5 hexes if no other unit is in spotting range, and if it can is there a difference if P2 tries to do a similar thing on the other side of the map.
And if you feel up to it could you at some stage throw an anti air turret into the mix ;;)
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Re: Bug: FOW replay issue [updated]

Postby Rubicon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:25 am

Thanks, will be looking into this soon for a new update in the new year.
Regards, Paul Johnson.

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Re: Bug: FOW replay issue [updated]

Postby bolt986 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:46 am

Jumbo wrote:Time to salute your work with this ^:)^ , your confirmation means I will be keeping my feet anchored to the ground for the time being.
Have you been able to ascertain any effects of elevation in your exercises? For example can a P1 chopper hovering above the plateau see and hit the lower hangar from a distance of 5 hexes if no other unit is in spotting range, and if it can is there a difference if P2 tries to do a similar thing on the other side of the map.
And if you feel up to it could you at some stage throw an anti air turret into the mix ;;)


Our working assumption was that. Return fire while playing always happens if in range. However during the replay units returning fire require vision. I'm willing to bet this is the cause or at least one way stacked units occur. My theory is that if the return fire kills the attacking unit and another steps into that same spot then units will not die in the replay resulting in stacked units. This is of course un-tested.
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